gallery Chuck vs The Other Guy

Chuck vs The Other Guy marks the end of a long journey for Chuck and Sarah. There dreams of finally being together will take place in this episode. One simple question from Chuck Bartowski would make the difference. Do You Love me, Sarah?

In Chuck vs The American Hero, we had the first of two magical moments. “I love you.” came out of the mouth of Chuck. He didn’t say it to to Elliem Orion or Morgan. not on a tape recorder. Chuck said it to her. He said it to Sarah.

Now it was her turn. Did Sarah love Chuck or had she fallen for the other guy. Let the conclusion of this season long arc reach its conclusion. By no means will she say the words I love you too, but one simple three letter word was music to the ears of said, Charles Irving Bartowksi

The other guy will resolve years of build up.

In American Hero, we were treated to a Charah moment that will survive over time. A magical moment in the heat of the fire. Two love struck people bound for each other. It only took a leap of faith to get the job done. A realization that feelings were no longer going to stay bottled up anymore.

It was three words that have never been spoken before face to face. Signals missed by both parties, and denials worse than a kid stealing cookies out of the jar. Half Truths like this one

Sarah doesn't want to be considered a cover girlfriend
I am just his cover girlfriend

or this one opportunities like this one,

Sarah cooking Chuck breakfestSarah trusting Chuck in protecting her For those that take the video recording from Three Words, the words don’t register like they do when it’s face to face.

Let me show you the difference in reaction from Sarah listening and watching a video compared to actually hearing the words face to face.

Chuck’s words hit the spot, but with everything that happened the day before still on Sarah’s mind. She still didn’t pull back from the kiss. A big step forward. His eyes were sincere and filled with love as he said it.

Being told i love you face to face I love you Sarah WalkerI am going to kiss you now

As Chuck went to meet up with her at the train station. Shaw recovered from his injuries, and knew who really shot Eve finally.  It changed him. He was dead set on getting revenge against Sarah for doing it.

He picked up Sarah at her hotel room and they drove somewhere in the middle of no where. Shaw and Sarah were set to break into a warehouse believed to be the Director’s hideout. Shaw tells Sarah if the intel was right, the director would be in this building.

Searching for the Ring Director

Sarah looked at the lock box and connected a device and broke in. Sarah went in with Shaw giving her the evil eye as he followed soon after.

Shaw  on the prowlMeanwhile at the Buymore, Chuck went to the store searching for the colonel. Morgan stopped him and voiced his desire in joining Team Bartowski. With Sarah’s life potentially in danger,  Chuck said he had more pressing situations that needed his attention.

He asked Morgan if he saw Casey, and Morgan said through his peripheral vision he could see one John Casey exiting the bathroom. Morgan reminded Chuck on how peripheral vision was an excellent spy skill to have. Chuck needed to curb Morgan’s enthusiasm, so he patronized Morgan by saying he was an official member of the team.

Chuck told Casey about what happened on Sarah’s red test. Casey was startled by the development. He told Chuck he shouldn’t be telling him anything, but Chuck didn’t know what to do. Beckman told him to sit tight, but he told Casey he couldn’t do nothing because of how he felt about her. Casey told Chuck to call Col. Sanders  and ask for everything.

Sarah killed Shaw's wife

Sarah was sweeping the building, and went down a flight of stairs.  She thought Shaw was behind her but he was no where to be seen. Sarah was nervous now, and triggered her distress signal on her watch.

Sarah aloneSarah came to a section of the warehouse that had lighting and video equipment. A video was playing, which showed a woman on the screen. Sarah walked toward the screens, and recognized the face. 

As Sarah was watching the surveillance from her first kill. Shaw was lurking. He came closer and closer until Sarah saw him coming. He put his weapon away, and said take it easy. She asked him why were they playing this. It was the worse day of her life. He said mine too.

Outside the building, Chuck and a small army approach the same door Shaw and Sarah had gone through. He told them it was important for them to reacquire Agent Walker. He ordered nothing was to happen to her. They entered the building.

Wrose day of my life tooNothing is to happen to SarahThe song of the episode was playing at this time. Antler’s Kettering, which will be played later in the episode as well.

Shaw would tell Sarah the woman on the monitor was Evelyn Shaw. Sarah face broke into horror as she couldn’t believe it. “I killed your wife.” Shaw kept repeating it wasn’t her fault.

I killed your wifeChuck was closing in on their position, but when he looked over the railing. He saw Sarah was safe in Shaw’s arms. As the revelation was overwhelming for Sarah.

Shaw seeing ChuckChuck called off the raid including the tank…..

Chuck in midst of a rescue mission After the failed rescue mission, Chuck was being yelled at by Beckman. She said his mission cost a lot of money, but Chuck explained his actions.

He said, they both thought Shaw went rogue and he would, but before Chuck said the words. Shaw said it for him “kill Sarah.” Shaw walked into the room with Sarah by his side.

A big day for both
You thought I’d betray my country

Shaw went to bat for Chuck. He said, Chuck was acting like a true spy, and looked out for his partner. He said he would of done the same thing minus the stealth bombers. Chuck went to check up on Sarah.

Thank you for the tank
Thank you for saving me. I appreciated the tank.

Shaw would ask the general who put the order in for Eve’s killing. Beckman said Langston Graham took that with him to his grave.  Beckman would recommend they  disband the team. Surely, they couldn’t function as team with this kind history.

Shaw was quick to say he could because they both wanted the same thing. Beckman asked are you sure. Shaw said, yes and looked at Sarah. Shaw asked, can we still work together? Sarah said, they could.  Chuck wasn’t happy with the team being back together.

Great the team was back together

Morgan was pumped about being apart of Chuck’s team. He went into Big Mike’s office to quit.  He said he found a real job. Big Mike asked if it was anything bad, Morgan said, no. Big Mike said then he had to go.

Then you have to go

Jeffster and Casey were watching from the sales floor., and discussed the tears Morgan was displaying.  Lester said he must be dying from something, but Jeff knew the tears were because he was happy. It meant Morgan was leaving.

All Casey could muster was a “Grimes.” Jeffster said, don’t worry Casey. There was room in there crew for one more. He could be their new Crew Buddy. However, Casey just walked off.

Casey already knows what is going on

At Chuck’s apartment, Chuck went into his room and signed on to speak with Beckman, and here lies the issue for Chuck. The people he trusted in teaching and training him never believe Chuck was a real spy. The second he didn’t work Beckman canned him and

Your staying home Chuck

He insisted that Shaw was an emotional wreck. no one could control their feelings that well. Beckman told Chuck what he was seeing in Shaw was a true professional. Something Chuck was not.

She further would tell Chuck she was moving forward with her original plan which was  Sarah and Shaw running the Ring task force in Washington, and he asked about himself. Beckman said, he wasn’t ready. He would stay in Burbank until she knew what to do with him. The tone and harsh words from Beckman would send Chuck in a tailspin.

At the Buymore, Morgan was cleaning out his locker. Casey came into the breakroom. He asked what Morgan was doing.

Going to work with Chuck huh

Morgan: Wa-pshh!

Casey: Where you going, sport? New job?

Morgan: It’s kind of secret.

Casey: You’re going to work for Chuck. I’m not a moron.

Morgan: All right. Isn’t it awesome? Can you believe it? Me, a spy.
And listen, when-when General Beckman lets you come back, me and you will be spies together.

Casey: Beckman doesn’t forget a small thing like treason.
And, uh I’m really learning to enjoy my new life here.

Morgan: Are you kidding me? John, your old life was so exciting.
The adventures, the missions, the weaponry, the women

Casey: Please stop. Right. Got it. Learn to lock it down.
Well, I’ll tell you what. I’m glad you’re okay here, you know? Won’t be the same without you.

Morgan: But, uh enjoy my old life. You, too.

you too

Morgan returns home, and was super excited to tell Chuck about quitting the Buymore, but he was cut short by what he saw. He saw Chuck playing Guitar Hero, while drinking Black Label Johnnie Walker. Morgan was concerned once he saw his best friend mixing gaming with liquor.

Chuck was going for another drink, but Morgan grabbed the bottle. He said he wasn’t going to let Chuck do this, He wasn’t going to let him go over the edge. Chuck said he was already at that point. Morgan said he wasn’t going to let him drink himself stupid. Chuck flashed and said, “Yes, you are.”

Your not doing this ChuckThe result of Chuck's flash After tying Morgan up, Chuck started quoted lines from Pretty in Pink. Morgan was getting upset because Chuck was misquoting the lines, and as Morgan said put the bottle away Sarah walked into the apartment asking what was happening.

What is happening

Morgan told Sarah how Chuck found out she was leaving with Shaw, and drank himself to oblivion and what was also concerning was he ate a whole carton of mint ice cream. Sarah said, she could see that.

Oh my Gosh Sarah is here I can see that

Sarah cuts Morgan loose, and asked him if she can have a moment alone with Chuck. She gave him a look and sat beside him. What happened next was magical.

Some may say a simple Yes isn’t enough to clean up the mess this season has stirred, but as a hopeless romantic that I am. Sometimes forgiving someone is easy especially when you love someone. Chuck loved Sarah, and she loved him. Yes was enough for Chuck, and the moment didn’t require anything more than that. Why ruin a special moment with rehashing the past.

Chuck said it best in the Ring, “Sometimes you just have to follow your heart, our heads complicate things.” The best part of the Yes, was her jumping to kiss him. It’s like she desired to kiss him since the stakeout again.

kiss as a real couple

It’s why I stress communication. It’s the very reason I stand by my theory regarding Barstow. They weren’t ready because they never discussed their feelings for each other.

American Hero was where Chuck spoke his feelings to her face to face.

Now, Sarah did give a very brief reason behind her feelings for him. She still has ways to go to truly understand her love, but she does love him, and as she will mention next season. She was learning every day how to love. Remember this is a woman that never experience the real passion and love she has for Chuck.

She didn’t have the same feelings for Bryce because if she did than she wouldn’t had fallen for Chuck so quickly in the pilot. It’s the very feelings she had for Chuck that made her want to kiss him during the stakeout despite being with Shaw at the time.

The word Yes is significant because it’s letting Chuck know her feelings. The kiss afterwards was enough said. He didn’t kiss her. She kissed him. A great moment for the both of them. There is still work to be done. We crossed the goalline and tied the game. Now we have overtime to win the game with momentum on their side.

After Sarah and Chuck share their special moment. Sarah said he was needed for a mission. Shaw found the director’s headquarters and the mish required three people. Chuck was their third.

Morgan came running out of the bedroom after hearing this and introduced himself as apart of Chuck’s team. All Sarah could do is stand there and smile.

Sarah had come home for good The last time we saw this smile was here,

There is Sarah of old

On the mission, Shaw went over the plan and what Charah needed to do. Chuck was whispering does he know, but Sarah ssshed him. Shaw assured Chuck he trusted him despite the warehouse.


As Chuck and Sarah were lowering themselves down the elevator shaft. Shaw positioned the camera facing him. When Sarah and Chuck reached their position. Chuck asked if they really could trust Shaw. Sarah assured Chuck about Shaw’s intentions were to stop the Director. As Shaw was working on opening the elevator door, two ring agents came to stop Shaw. He kicked their weapons out of their hands, a couple of elbow punches and a really nice roundhouse Shaw handled himself nicely.

in the middle of the scuffle, Shaw got off a few shots that flew down by Chuck and Sarah. Chuck said, see he knows. Sarah asked Shaw if he was alright. Shaw assured them everything was fine just a little ring company. Shaw was able to open the hatch, and Charah dropped into the elevator.

in the elevator

The doors of the elevator were ready to open, and enter the director. Mark Sheppard was really funny in this scene. He points out that Sarah was a real spy, but her partner wasn’t. He even went as far as question Chuck’s use of a tranq gun.

He said, there was no chance Charah would get the cipher. They all said cipher. The Director said don’t play dumb, they knew they were building an Intersect for a year. At this point, Chuck found his backbone and demanded the Director to call his assistant to bring the cipher  to the elevator. Sarah pointed her gun at the director and he called.

What would transpire was pretty funny. the assistant comes to the elevator with the cipher and the Director uses a code word Barcelona. After he said it, the assistant looked around the elevator. Sarah grabbed her and told Chuck the word was a code.

The ever witt of Mark Sheppard

Chuck was complaining about what they were going to do with her. Soon another person would join the fray. It was cause Charah to eventually be out numbered. When the elevator doors opened two more agents holding guns forced Chuck and Sarah to drop their weapons. As the two were trapped, shots were fired as Shaw shot the two agents in the hallway.

Shaw setting up Charah

He shot the agents in the elevator, and walked in. Meanwhile, the Director said, why not kill Sarah here she was the one who shot his wife., but Shaw said go. He would take care of this, Sarah plea went all for not. Chuck and Sarah existed the elevator. The doors shut and they heard another shot. Chuck looked at Sarah and said “You’re right, maybe now isn’t the right time to tell him about  us.”

The turn is complete Shaw joins the ringDid he justAt Castle, The team and Beckman were going over the particulars of the cipher. Shaw said the it looks like the components were fabricated in Paris. Beckman ordered Shaw and Sarah to retrieve the. Chuck asked about him and the general reiterated he wasn’t ready.

Shaw listening to Chuck put in a good word for him

Chuck would turn to Sarah and said, they were never going to get their chance. She relaxed him and said one more mission.  Once she got back, it was him and her, and kissed him.

don't worry once I get back..... looks like Sarah is happy to be kisssing Chuck again

Chuck returned to the apartment, and Morgan asked Chuck how are things. Chuck said, everything was fine. Shaw and Sarah were on their way to Paris. After Morgan heard this, he spoke reality to Chuck. He said, he was going to get the girl and did he mention to Beckman about him.

Morgan was in a tough spot now. He quit his job with the idea Chuck would put in a good word for him, but with trying to win Sarah back and wondering if Shaw had turned how could Chuck say a good word in for his buddy. Morgan’s attitude was not just here.

Chuck and Morgan talking about joining the team

As Morgan picked up two glasses and some liquor, Chuck assured him Shaw wasn’t a bad dude. He pulled out his laptop and show the video from the mission. However, Morgan quickly realized the video was a fake. The fight was staged.

He explained the fists were pulled and the roundhouse didn’t even land. Chuck was adamant about Shaw shooting people, but Morgan asked if he saw viscera or blood. Chuck didn’t respond.

Chuck and Morgan went to Castle to let the general know about the discovery. However, the general was more upset with Chuck bringing Morgan to Castle. A bad reaction in my view. She was more concern with Morgan being in Castle than sending the agency’s top agent to her potential death. Great job GB….

GB suspends Bartowski for his decision to bring Morgan to Castle. Chuck still was going to find Sarah with or without the help of the CIA. It was down to Morgan and Chuck according to Bartowski, but Morgan reminded him of another.

Chuck and Morgan went to Casey for help. He was resistant at first but once Morgan egged him on. The colonel asked for his suit. Morgan get me my suit the black one

While flying to Paris, Chuck was flipping out due to being stuck up in a plane while the possibilities of Sarah being dead crept his mind.  Casey did his best to calm Chuck by saying before the Intersect he was smart. He told Chuck to look at the intel and find Sarah.

Chuck flipping out

Sarah and Shaw were walking the streets of Paris. As they are walking, she begins to recognize the scenery and immediately pulls her gun out.

Shaw lead Sarah to the scene of the crimeYou lead me hereThis is heel Shaw

Shaw said, “Sarah, you killed my wife…Did you think I would really be ok with that.”  Sarah thought he was fine with it. in a cold tone said, he said a lot of things to get her there, and even said how the gun must of felt heavy. As ring agents surrounded her, they shot a dart into her shoulder which demobilized her. It would make her drop the gun.

Sarah was in trouble here. She knew it to because her startled and lifeless body showed all signs of defeat. She was in a no win situation all because she believed in Shaw despite Chuck’s warnings.

Sarah took a few steps and turned to Shaw. Why did you bring me here. This was where I shot her. You lead me here. After darting her and revealing the Director was still alive. Shaw drags her over to a small Cafe, and reveals why he turned and joined the Ring.

All along with no one to save her Is anyone going to save her

Shaw: They need to know what they did to me.
They need to feel the pain that I felt.
And that is why I have to kill you.

They need to feel how i feel

 I didn’t like Shaw explanation here. If he knew what red tests were why the need to kill Sarah. The Director himself said she did what she was told. Shaw ordered Chuck to perform his red test. When comforting Sarah, he said “It was choice we all had to make…he did it to serve his country.” Wasn’t Sarah doing the same thing?

I would like to know your opinion on this, in the comment section. Tell me if Shaw over reacted to this. I feel he was in the right to turn on the CIA, I would of done the same thing if I found out the agency was lying to me all these years, but Sarah was the messenger.

Shaw would give his new boss the schematics and research data of the new Intersect for their scientist to finish. The Director asked if Shaw wanted his help in killing Sarah, but he declined.

After the Ring left, Chuck made his presence felt much to the delight of Sarah. He stood behind Shaw with a real gun pointed at his head. Shaw asked him how did he find him. Chuck said he put two and two together.

Chuck to the rescueRelief to see ChuckGun shots would sound like music to Sarah’s ears as Shaw figured Chuck brought Casey with him. All smart moves according to Shaw. Chuck than would ask Shaw to stand up. No so smart Chuck also according to Shaw. As Shaw stood up, he would take a swing at Chuck, and the two would brawl for real this time. All Sarah could do was just sit there.

Shaw would win the scuffle, and possessed Sarah in his clutches. He warned Chuck about following, he told him none of this was his fault and he didn’t want to hurt him, but if he followed he would kill Chuck.

As Shaw dragged Sarah’s lifeless body, Chuck looked around and found the gun. Shaw placed Sarah over the ledge, and looked down at the river. He promised her the speed of the current would make her death painless. How thoughtful Shaw. However, Chuck would ruin his parade. He would point his gun at Shaw and told him not to do it.

He tried to talk him down, but Shaw wasn’t listening. He told Chuck about the warning, and pointed his gun at Chuck with Sarah watching.

As Shaw was ready to fire his weapon, Chuck unloaded his in the chest into one Daniel Shaw. Shaw fell over the ledge and grabbed Sarah’s arm trying to pull her down with him, but Chuck reached her in time.

Chuck saves Sarah from death

This would mark the only time we will ever see Bartowski use a real gun. It’s fitting he did it for her. As they say, you will do anything to save a love one even go against one’s own principles.

We should also note by Chuck using a real gun here. Shaw accomplished what he set out for Chuck. In Operation Awesome, he told Chuck “I don’t like guns, but it pays to know how to use one.” Chuck used a real gun to save Sarah.

Casey had the Director and the Intersect data. He would than call GB, who reinstated Casey to his former rank and position with the agency. A crown victoria and one request she wasn’t going to like.

As Morgan asked Big Mike for his job back, Mike was eager and able to give Morgan his position back. A far cry from S1 when Mike thought Morgan as the anchor around Bartowski’s neck.

When Morgan left Mike’s office, he received a call from GB welcoming him to the team. Morgan was so excited, he told her he would quit his job, but she told him not do it. The Buymore was going to be his cover.

The newest member to TBWelcome to Team Bartowski, Morgan.

Back in Paris, we get another magical Chuck and Sarah moment. As Sarah woke up from her slumber, Chuck sat beside her. She asked what happened.

Originally this episode was slated to be the season finale, but NBC rewarded Chuck with 6 more episodes, but It would of been cool to wait 6 months for the continuation.

Sarah remembered the bridge and Shaw trying to kill her, but Chuck told her it was over. Chuck told her about shooting Shaw and that he had no choice, but he was still her Chuck. She kissed him for saving her.

You saved me
You saved me?

The hero get the kiss

The kiss didn’t last long because the general called. She wanted them back. There was a new mission for them, but Sarah closed the laptop. She would tell Chuck….Shut up and Kiss me.

Shut up and kiss me

 Overall Thoughts of the Episode

The episode will always be a classic for many Chuck fans. Despite some reservations about a simple Yes would be the cure for all the hardship of the season. It still had that magical moment we were all waiting for.

Chuck and Sarah are together for real, but to this author they were together the whole time. Everyone knew it already only the two love birds didn’t. They didn’t know it until they spoke about it.

Morgan joined the team and that ain’t bad….Casey is rehired and Shaw turned on the agency joining the Ring.  Great episode indeed.

Next episode is a very special one as well. Chuck and Sarah take a brief trip to consummate their relationship. The long awaited intimacy both were seeking. Chuck vs The Honeymooners is a favorite not only of mine, but the Chuck universe as well.

A nice refresher if you will.




  1. I loved her response, she’s still stuggling with her emotions here, it makes sense that she wasn’t able to actually say “I love you too” she’s still gaurded alittle.

  2. In the Three Words, Chuck actually told Sarah he loved her to her face…the doors of the elevator had opened. What she hadn’t heard was the explanation for why he wanted to become a spy. As well, Chuck had told Sarah he wanted to talk to her, so she knew that Chuck had been wanting to tell her he loved her for a while. Also in Season 2 during the Breakup ( I believe ), Chuck told Sarah that he would get the Intersect out of his head, and he would then be with the girl he loved. Sarah was there, and though it wasn’t “I love you”, Sarah knew what he was saying, and who he was talking about.

    Like the rest of the whole Shaw arc, this didn’t really make a lot of sense. Whatever the writers were trying to accomplish with Season 3 wasn’t working, so they rebooted with an episode that also left more questions than answers. However, it allowed the story to get back on track, and essentially end up back where they were when Chuck asked Sarah to go on a romantic vacation, with a slice of Prague thrown in. They were more damaged by the events of season 3, and while Chuck was able to communicate slightly better with Sarah, Sarah did not ever reconcile or communicate with Chuck. Just because she answered DYLM with a “Yes” is not communication…it’s just an answer to a question, and an obfuscation at that.( ” I fell for you…”). While Chuck was able to explore his reasons for his actions during this arc, and try to explain them ( either to himself, Morgan or Sarah ), Sarah NEVER gave her reasons for her actions…..all she ever did was answer Chuck’s question with , “Yes”.

    • Sometimes Gary, its better to let things lie. Being Married I am sure has taught you that much. Sure things were a cluster you know what, but at the end of the day the misery arc is over. well, until rewatch comes around to it, but all board we are in for a much better ride.

    • Gary,

      You know, my mother in law said it best the other night, if there wasn’t drama in a television show there wouldn’t be a need to order 22 episodes. Chuck spaced out there story so much it got convoluted with other episodes that would torpedo the concept. For example, in Tooth they discussed what the doctor was preparing to do. Was that the same guy that resurrected Bryce and Shaw? interesting continuity error.

      • Yes Chris…it is drama, and it’s an attempt by the writer’s to avoid “jumping the shark”. The point I was making is that you assign importance to events that really have no importance per se.

        For instance,

        ““I love you.” came out of the mouth of Chuck. He didn’t say it to to Elliem Orion or Morgan. not on a tape recorder. Chuck said it to her. He said it to Sarah.”

        I pointed out that he had said it to her before….that he had let her know many times before that he loved her. Yet you assign importance to this event …. the “I love you” isn’t the important part of the sentence. It’s what he is willing to give up to be with her, in spite of everything she’s done to him this season, that finally has her realizing the depth of that love….what love truly means.

        And you continue to flog Barstow as unworthy of a sexual relationship because there was no communication up to that point, but Paris is worthy because they are now communicating. Yet you give absolutely no evidence that Sarah knows how to communicate other than utter the word, “Yes”…… and only when prompted, at that. At least in Barstow, Sarah realized that you sometimes have to sacrifice a bit of yourself for the other person. By the time ,”Yes” came along, all she had ever done is pull back from Chuck, punish Chuck for pursuing what she encouraged him to pursue, stop believing in him, stop trusting him, betray him, lie to him …. and have a long term sexual relationship with his boss….right in front of him.

        Yeah…not only was she now ready for a sexual relationship with Chuck, she was worthy too. 😉

        If you say you just want to forget about the past, Chris, then forget about the past….forget about Barstow. It makes no sense in the context of Paris or the Honeymooners. You were doing a pretty decent job of the article until you tried to tie it to a fantasy concept that doesn’t hold water.

  3. As most of you know, the Other Guy is my top rated episode. Perhaps for the sheer reason Gary noted; the misery arc was finally put to bed. Good riddance to Shaw. He was a big problem in the relationship. He was something else to get in the way and convoluted an already screwed up mess. With that said, Shaw was a necessary evil like it or or not. And as Chris’s mother in law noted, a show without drama or conflict is not interesting and will not need 22 episodes.

    For 47 episodes we watched the on again off again romance develop. For the last 9 episodes we watched Shaw help to derail an already wrecked train. We all kept watching because of wanting to see Chara have their chance. This was the first time that the usual communication gap was closed.

    I’m kinda on the fence on the Yes answer. I am leaning more toward it was the most appropriate answer. Simple, to the point, and couldn’t be misconstrued as anything else. Yes was a straight forward communication in which only one meaning could be a applied or implied. The more I type and expand on my explanation I have convinced myself that in a show that has been a constant whirlwind of miscommunication and missed signals, the one word answer Sarah gave was brilliant.

    We are 12 episodes removed from the Prague incident. Everyone seems to agree that the Prague issue is what started the train derailment here. Other Guy gets the train back on the track. It is also the end of the 9 episode Shaw arc. As I said with Prague, it needed to happen to keep the story moving. Maybe it went too far and Other Guy needed to happen to fix that.

    • Prague will always be a scapegoat, but the train derailment didn’t start there….it came from whatever changed Sarah’s mind about wanting Chuck to pursue the life of a spy. Something happened between, ” You ARE that guy…” and, “Your new identity is Hector Calderone …”. It was probably Bryce’s death and Sarah’s realization that the spy business is dangerous. But it also meant that she trapped herself in between the life she knew as a spy, and the normal life she wanted with Chuck. Lying to Chuck to get him to run in Prague was a reversion to pre-CIA Sarah ….live a life on the run with different aliases. Sure, Sarah was comfortable ( or familiar ) with that lifestyle, but it wasn’t the life she envisioned or even wanted. And Chuck saw through that con…

      I still find it funny people talk about the communication issue ( or miscommunication ). Sarah never communicated with Chuck at all in Season 3 up to this point ( and Prague was a lie, so it doesn’t count as communication ). Like I said, “Yes” is not communication ….it bought her time. She finally understood what love is…the sacrifice it entails. However, she didn’t see it from her actions, but from Chuck’s. He had told her he loved her numerous times, he had tried to keep the relationship alive numerous times, and he had risked everything by stepping into her world, and then leaving it if necessary. “Yes” was the most appropriate response to the question, but qualifying the “yes” with , “I FELL for you…” was also appropriate, because the depth of sacrifice that Chuck showed he was willing to endure for love, was no where NEAR what Sarah would sacrifice. It was only once she was able to understand what she would actually do for Chuck ( and not as a spy) that she could even respond with , “I love you…”

  4. Great job on the recap Chris:) I will get into the “Sarah vs. The Yes” drama in a minute, but first I want to respond to your initial question about Shaw and his unwillingness to forgive Sarah for “doing her job”.

    Shaw is the ultimate spy. He’s both incredibly smart and incredibly stoic. Brandon Routh was perfect for this role. He had but one weakness, his emotional attachment to his wife and the events that led to her death. He (in my opinion) was all business except for his almost irrational need for revenge on the person who killed his wife. I say irrational because, like you said Chris, he himself had ordered spies to complete their Red Tests and knew what it would have meant for them to have disobeyed that order. Shaw was just unable to see past his grief and anger to realize that Sarah was just doing her job. From the very beginning of Shaw’s character arc we see glimpses of this anger toward the Ring (whom he thought responsible for his wife’s death). So, in my opinion, it is fitting that he zero in on Sarah after discovering she was the one who pulled the trigger. It fits with his characters personality.

    Gary said: “By the time ,”Yes” came along, all she had ever done is pull back from Chuck, punish Chuck for pursuing what she encouraged him to pursue, stop believing in him, stop trusting him, betray him, lie to him …. and have a long term sexual relationship with his boss….right in front of him.”

    I’m about to rant with a clear female perspective that supports Sarah 100%…just my opinion:)

    “Sarah vs. The Yes” is so interesting to read about through the eyes of others. It just demonstrates how differently every one of us interprets the show and its storyline. Season 3 gets a lot of negative comments on how the writers almost blew it and then rushed to fix it in The American Hero and The Other Guy. In my opinion it was a pretty good twist in the plot. Gary, you were talking about communication between the two of them being terrible and I think you are spot on with that. The first two seasons we see them growing together and clearly falling in love with each other, but never once voicing those feelings directly and clearly. There were a lot of hints and talk around the point moments, but never a clear direct phrase from either of them, to each other, regarding their feelings.

    At the end of Season 2 we all thought it was a done deal and that they would clearly be together. But in the opening episode of Season 3 we are all shocked by the state of Chuck! After finally seeing the back story of what happened in Prague I totally understood why Sarah felt and acted the way she did. She was completely broken hearted. Her response to her spy broken heart is to shut down emotionally and become the cold, professional spy she once was, before she met emo inducing Chuck. Chuck deserved the cold shoulder. As a woman, I’m with Sarah on this one.

    Terrible communication between the two of them is what leads to all this. Sarah loves Chuck for who he is and had totally let her guard down, and was ready to give up doing something she loved so they could be together. Chuck loves Sarah for who she is but feels like he needs to become a hero for her. Chuck chose to become a hero (spy) over running away with Sarah, who had walked away from hero (spy) life to be with Chuck. Lack of communication kept them apart.

    Enter Shaw. “A true spy”, in Beckman’s words. Everything Sarah had once been before meeting Chuck. The development of their relationship, however heartbreaking to watch, made sense to me. He was the spy she was trying to be (again) after being Chucked. Her feelings for Chuck are clearly still there, though we only see small glimpses of them at first, those feelings become more obvious as the Season progresses. No matter how much distance she tries to put between herself and Chuck, the connection remains. By the time Chuck vs. The American Hero came along, she was on the edge of committing to a life that she had almost walked away from. It was clear at this point that Sarah still wanted to be a spy, but still believed that in order to be with Chuck she would have to leave the spy life. Being with Shaw was an easier, risk free option. Her other option was to expose herself emotionally and risk everything to be with Chuck.

    Chucks actions in The American Hero, saving Shaw to save Sarah from further pain, and then finally voicing his feelings face to face with a direct “I love you” made Sarah’s decision easy, because Chuck was everything she wanted and worth the emotional and professional risk. Due to it being a TV drama, we still had to wait for the “hook up”. So, naturally Sarah doesn’t respond directly to Chuck’s speech, but instead we see her actions indicating that she was going with him.

    When The Other Guy begins, we already know Sarah’s decision but Chuck is still unaware. After the over the top rescue happens all Chuck sees is that Sarah and Shaw are still going to be working together, so he goes on his mint ice cream, boozed up gaming session. Which leads me to the much debated “Yes” vs. an “I love you”.

    In my opinion, after the emotional roller coaster these two had been on (which I tried to lay out for you in the above rant) her “Yes” was all she needed to say. Plus, her lack of an “I love you” left room for some more great storyline! Remembering that showing emotion does not come easily to Sarah, I think her “Yes” was a big deal.

    • Chris obviously has a partner in ignoring details of the show that don’t fit in with the storyline !!! LOL

      “I am going to get this thing out of my head, and when I do, I’m going to live the life I want with the girl that I love..”

      No miscommunication or misdirection there……

      Vault doors open…. Chuck says, ” Sarah, I love you.”

      No miscommunication there. And finding out why Chuck left her at the train station in Prague was important, because it was all about HER. Do you really think Sarah wanted to live a life on the run?? Was there ever any indication that that is something she wanted to do? Of course not …it was a last ditch, spur of the moment, stupid plan that would have had them both in lockup, rather than making a life together. And she lied to Chuck in order for him to even meet her there ….

      Prague needs to be analyzed…if you gloss over the surface, I’m sure you’ll only see Sarah being heart broken. There’s so much more to it than the one scene…..

      • First, Sheena welcome to Chuckaholics

        You will never convince Gary about Prague because he is pro Chuck and everything Sarah does is designed to keep Chuck under her thumb, and when we defend Sarah we are Sarah sympathizers when Sarah did more for the relationship the first two years She made a lot of first moves like a kiss in hard salami

        Or getting him his degree help find his father all Chuck did was pursue other women only to realize he can’t be with anyone else yet Sarah stuck around waiting

      • I thought we were talking about season 3? Any dialogue you can present which shows the maturing of Sarah’s communication skills over Barstow ? A maturing of the relationship ?

        Plus the hard Salami kiss…… “It was a mistake, one I won’t make again.”

        Plus she often pushes Chuck away, as in “The Truth” ( Chuck doesn’t know Sarah can lie under the influence of Pentathol), or when she explains that sometimes in situations like theirs that feelings are misconstrued. Or taking it out on Chuck when she decides NOT to run away with Bryce. Or telling Chuck they can’t go back to the Suburbs for a night because this is only a cover. Of course, in Chris’ version of Chuck, these don’t show up on the screen. 😉

        Actually, I’m a big fan of Sarah. I love her complexity, I love her inner turmoil about choosing to stay with the spy world, or leaving it for Chuck’s world. I love her past and how it shaped her. I love what she sees in Chuck and how Chuck influences her. I love that she takes chances with her career in S1&2 to stay in Chuck’s life. I love that she’s (generally ) fearless.

        But, unlike Chris, I don’t think the show should have been called “Sarah Walker, Secret Agent”.

        And I don’t think they should have taken away her and casey’s voice in season 3.

      • Gary,

        Saying I love while falling out of a vault isn’t the same thing, as saying it face to face in the perfect intimate setting. Much like the Push Mix. Were you disappointed that Chuck and Sarah didn’t say will you marry me. They just knew. Much like my wife. She didn’t let me propose. I didn’t need too.

        Same thing Yes, can be constituted as Sheena said, Yes, was enough for Chuck why fault him for that. If every couple lived in the past like Chuck did with Jill lives don’t move on. You like to say Sarah lied to Chuck, and I agree she did, but most of the time when she lied to Chuck it wasn’t the truth. Mr. Bush said best in his book. Sarah’s lies weren’t meant for Chuck it was more of lying to herself. Yes, Chuck could and should misread Sarah’s signals, but at the same time look at the timing of the lies.

        Sarah lied to Chuck about Bryce in Wookie, What happened? She just learned that Bryce was a hot topic, Sarah lied to Chuck when under the truth serum, the only time in S1 when she was caught lying to Chuck was the fake picture which she rectified with a real one.

        I also agree with about running, it was a bad idea because only two episode prior to Prague, Casey was ordered to find them. S3’s Sarah is indifferent because as I am watching the season for the site. I realize the hatred Chris Fedak had for Sarah. The more I see the series the more I see Sarah was destroyed and never recovered. Alix said it best on twitter Writers sometimes like to kill their own characters why i don’t know.

        My wife also pointed out during dinner last night. She said often writers write about experiences in their lives. Maybe Sarah represented someone in Chris Fedak’s past that hurt him and he took his frustrations out on the character what do you think of that theory from the BOD

    • You should have been here for the Prague discussions. Perhaps we should resurrect that and get new prospective on it.

      • Prague is an important piece of the puzzle, but is oversimplified. To blame all of Sarah’s S3 actions on Prague is naive and simplistic. She seemed to rationalize Prague after Three Words. Like I always said, if you are mad at Chuck for Prague, but not mad at Sarah for her decision at Ellie’s wedding, then you’ve missed the plot. G. Walter Bush really seems to get it.

        And Chuck wasn’t becoming a spy to be a hero to Sarah…he was doing it because it was the only way left to be with Sarah forever. Sarah was either going to quit being a spy and be with Chuck in a normal life, or he would have to join her in the spy life. As much as she wanted the normal life, she just couldn’t take that final step to leave the only life she really knew. That’s why she rejected Chuck at Ellie’s wedding. It took one last act of selflessness from Chuck ( to buy Ellie the wedding of her dreams ) that finally allowed Sarah to take a leap to Chuck’s world. It was not without one last stab at getting Chuck to join her (‘….you ARE that guy…” ), but she was waylaid by Bryce’s kidnapping. Since Chuck knew there were only 2 ways to be with Sarah forever, and she already rejected the “normal life” way, Chuck took the leap to becoming a spy. And to Chuck, Sarah was a “big fish”, and felt he needed to be a spy to have any chance. It really was his destiny anyway, as we are to find out.

        Prague was infamous because it was so far off the reservation for both Sarah and Chuck. Sarah’s choices were always to continue being a spy ( and bring Chuck into that world to be with him) OR, to leave the spy life and be with Chuck as a normal person. Living a life on the run, away from all that Sarah loved about Chuck’s life…his family, his friends ….it made no sense why she would want to give both that up and the spy life that she felt comfortable with. It made no sense to think that Chuck would follow her blindly, leaving all his family and friends behind. And it made no sense that Chuck wouldn’t be Chuck and say exactly what he said in the Three Words while at the Train Station. Sure, it made good theatre and allowed for the angst of season 3, but it didn’t fit the characters and all they had worked towards in the first 2 seasons. Fedak didn’t destroy Sarah, he destroyed both of them. He also minimized Casey, all to bring in a new character that couldn’t hold a candle to the acting abilities of main characters, and had no redeeming qualities ….except Chris’ much vaunted “he sent Chuck on a mission”……

        And, Chris, “Yes” was good enough …it was all Chuck wanted. He loved Sarah unconditionally. But you have to admit that Sarah had always put conditions on her love. That has very much to do with her upbringing and her training….it wasn’t a character flaw. Why Prague and the rest of the misery arc is necessary is beyond me … there really was no growth in the characters. But look at the growth both Sarah and Chuck did once they were free of the inorganic separation the writers had them in. I don’t know how anyone can say that the situations they were faced with as a “spy couple” in late S3 until S5 weren’t more conducive to growth than this particular misery arc.

      • Honestly Gary, I wasn’t mad at Chuck for the “vacation line.” I was more mad at Sarah for her reaction to the Red Test. but I was even more mad at Casey and Chuck for not trusting Sarah. A common issue between the team Paul from the intersect Project podcast once said there was a distrust in the team during his Rewatch episode of Helicopter, but did they really ever trust each other.

        Shoot, Casey didn’t trust his team to help him in Tic Tac three years later. I guess what I am failing to say is I can’t blame Shaw for waiting kill Sarah after he found out who really killed Eve. I can’t fault Chuck for wanting to become a spy because he know that was the only way he could be with Sarah. I have written before Sarah’s family was the CIA, its hard for a woman to leave her family which in this case Sarah leaving the agency. Chuck as man and with the intersect in his head had no choice but to join the agency as a full time spy.

        I also can’t fault Sarah for feeling hurt in Chuck decision. All of the decisions made by Chuck and Sarah in S3 were irrational except when they started communicating. Look, Sarah started it in Tic Tac, a small piece but she said “Please don’t lose that guy, I met three year ago.” She was warning him about the potential change to him, but why would Chuck listen because he was destine to be with Sarah. decision often impact lives Sarah said it in Fake Name “Lives” are being effected here. Am I wrong to assume that statement included her in the mix or am I delusional.

        You like to bring up how I don’t like Barstow, I base it on two things. Both are emotionally unstable, especially Chuck. What would happen if Sarah felt guilty about sleeping with Chuck. She still hadn’t broken away from the agency. BL back didn’t help matters.

        I am sorry for digressing

      • Why would she feel guilty about sleeping with Chuck ( or vice versa)? Did Chuck feel guilty about Jill or Hannah? Did Sarah feel guilty about Shaw ? It’s just sex…and they had more reason to have sex with each other than they ever did with any of the other characters….even in Season 2.

      • I guess it’s a generation thing. Sex isn’t just sex. As a man and proud to admit. I didn’t want to sleep with just anyone. It cheapens the feeling it’s supposed to generate. Sure, Chuck and Sarah were supposed to sleep together there was real feelings there, but could they look at each other without fear the agency would fire her for compromising (in Sarah’s mind) or feel inadequate because he didn’t feel he measured up (Chuck’s mind) Sarah said she loved Chuck on a recording too, for me it doesn’t hold much weight like in AH.

        Also keep in mind what if Sarah thought what they did was a mistake, Chuck would of wallowed even worse and really tailspin because he may feel he didn’t perform well in bed. Sarah and Chuck never set rules and wishes in there fake relationship. Chuck asked in the Truth what were the rules of their arrangement, but Sarah’s response was very Agent Walker about protocol and his safety. She didn’t say the truth that she didn’t want Chuck to date Lou because she wanted him.

        Chuck didn’t tell Sarah how he felt about the kiss between Bryce and Sarah in his bedroom. They couldn’t even discuss a fake proposal without fumbling on their words. Ellie and Awesome were the bareometer of what a real relationship was supposed to be, an educational tool that both Chuck and Sarah failed to use in their relationship. Why? because they didn’t speak together other like they started to in Tic Tac. it’s why in Final exam during the stakeout Sarah wanted to kiss Chuck again because they were discussing their relationship

        I am sorry Gary but they weren’t ready for sex in Paris or Barstow. They were ready for sex at the end of Honeymooners when she was sitting on his bed and they were hiding their feelings. That was when they were ready, well at least to me.

      • Chris said,

        “I guess it’s a generation thing. Sex isn’t just sex.”

        You may want to ask why Chuck slept with Jill and Hannah and Sarah slept with Shaw. I’m pretty sure, to both of them, sex was just sex. There certainly wasn’t any deep seated love or trust … it was just sex.

      • and thats why those relationships didn’t last. Look what happened after Chuck and Jill slept together. Jill gets arrested for trying to kill Sarah. Hannah was a mistake Chuck shouldn’t of slept with him, and after the dinner he knew made a mistake. However, he was too late because while he was walking alone, Sarah was kissing Shaw.

        You know my theory on Shaw and Sarah. I didn’t approve either because there was no feelings between Shaw and Sarah.

      • You’re blaming the SEX as the reason those dalliances didn’t work out ???

        Not the fact that Jill was a Fulcrum agent? Not the fact that Chuck was still in love with Sarah? Not the fact that Sarah killed Shaw’s wife? The reason these relationships failed was because of SEX ?????

        Just….WOW !

      • No,

        The sex isn’t the sole reason, but it didn’t make their relationships any better did it? Why not control yourself and not lose yourself in the moment. Chuck was able to do it with the agents in 3D. Sarah was able to control herself with Cole. All i am saying is control yourself. Sarah and Chuck sleeping with Jill, Hannah and Shaw was poor judgment in my view.

      • Chuck and Sarah wanted that intimacy after the kiss, but never could seize that opportunity with Casey listening in or always being on missions. It’s not easy to find alone time when the agency always needed the Intersect or Chuck’s world of misfits had drama. so, I kind of feel bad for them in a way, but Barstow and Paris Chuck and Sarah weren’t mature enough relationship wise to make such a commitment.

    • sorry sheena? but you say Shaw was the last spy, smart? this guy blew his life off by an amateur 2 times and also tried to kill him once in 3×09!!! Sarah in my view was indefensible in s3. You say she was heartbroken about Prague, but she didn’t tell Chuck she was leaving with Bryce, chuck saved her from captivity in Prague. And in addition, she begins a long-term relationship with the boss, in front of the man she loves, revealing intimate details about her that chuck (a man she says she loves) has no revealed, and what’s more, he is also the perpetrator of their “story”. There’s nothing defensible about this. At one point I thought chuck, he was stupid, chasing a woman who rightly loved him only because he could give her a normal life that she craved. Shaw turned bad then things moved, but at one point I thought Sarah deserved to die in Paris or went to Washington with Shaw – even casey had to intervene to make Sarah realize that Chuck hadn’t changed despite 3×10 and her umpteenth rescue to the incompetent Shaw. It was supposed to be a warning to Chukc, that he was learning to take what he wanted out of life.

  5. Chuck vs the Other Guy is quite simply a reset episode, nothing more. It’s an episode where nothing is fixed. They just grabbed the biggest paint roller they could find and covered it all up.

    As previously stated, if the showrunners didn’t want to address the drama presented they should have never gone there. But then unresolved drama did become a trademark of this show.

    Other Guy, much like the beach scene in the finale, is wholly inadequate in fixing what came before it.

    The resolution presented on screen is unearned and therefore cheapen to point of the arc and its supposed climax. It’s an episode of where “we have to check off all these things from the list regardless of if it makes sense or not (and it didn’t) because we have to get to here in the story”. And it shows.

    The biggest problem in all of S3 can be seen from space in this episode. That is that in order for Shaw to exist in this world, everyone else (but especially Sarah) has to become the stupidest people ever. I mean on what planet does John Casey think Shaw is a good spy.Beckman’s intelligence takes an awful thrashing in order to sell Shaw as well. (She’s just as OOC as Chuck and Sarah)

    For me, it never mattered that Chuck and Sarah weren’t on a supposed “equal footing” professionally or humanitarily (yes, I’m making up words). One would make up where the other was lacking. When Chuck showed some spy prowess or Sarah some form of emotion, THAT was special to watch. But it was special because they did it for each other and not by themselves. What really drew you into these characters, that were essentially “fish out of each other’s water”, was the implicit trust they shared in one another.

    So sure maybe the characters “grew” (although I never saw it) during the first 13, but their relationship, their trust in each other certainly didn’t, it went totally backwards. And by never adequately showing this trust being regained or rediscovered, by continuously showing us and telling us that it wasn’t, and never rekindling of Chuck and Sarah’s bond, that WAS the heart of the show, the relationship is now “less” than it was previously.

    I have no way of proving it. But I really do think that the root cause of people not buying into the supposed “hopeful” ending of the finale can be traced back to this unearned resolution of the misery arc.

    • Pretty well agree here….they really trashed the “character of the characters” that had been established in S1&2. I’m still searching for the reason it needed to happen. I’ve read it in tweets and posts here that Prague and the misery arc had to happen, but are never given a reason why. The Honeymooners is really just what was supposed to happen if Sarah had said yes to Chuck’s romantic vacation proposal. Without resolving the issues the writers saddled the characters with, the first 13 episodes serve no purpose whatsoever. All that happened to move the series forward, is that Chuck somehow became a spy ….without really passing his Red Test. Could have solved that issue in episode #1.

      • Shepherd,

        I disagree, Chuck’s training from the CIA didn’t pan out. He was fired because of it. He didn’t flash because of what happened at Prague.

        Further, his separation from Sarah led him to become even worse because he couldn’t explain himself to Sarah. She didn’t let him because she was still fuming over Prague, but that doesn’t work either after her expression she gave in Castle when seeing him in the Home Theater Room.

        Why people can’t see how Shaw was able to get more out of Chuck as a spy is beyond me. Under the wings of Casey, Sarah and Beckman he was stuck in neutral. Shaw changed all that. I am not just talking about a mission. Shaw made Chuck use an alias, and burned an asset. He did it all quicker with Shaw at the helm. Chuck did well on his own as well.

        Casey and Sarah never saw Chuck as a spy. Shaw did.

        But like you guys say I am blinded by my biased in Sarah and Shaw

      • You see, you’re seeing Shaw as a benefit to the story – and he likely was for an episode and a half. But globally, the Shaw return on investment after that is negative.

        Your love of Shaw blinds you the fact that any salient story collapses under the weight of whatever the showrunners tried to do with Shaw.

        Fans quickly realized that the show wouldn’t be fun again until the supreme idiot that was Shaw was gone. Any story was secondary to having Shaw go away. By having Shaw break up Team B the show itself became dysfunctional. Just watch 3.06 and 3.10 and tell me those Shawless episodes are better to watch than any other Shaw episode.

        The entirety of the arc was written around a guest character and NOT one of the show’s main characters. Shaw serves absolutely no purpose after First Class other than to suck all the fun out of the show. No one cares that Sarah killed Eve. In fact most think she put Eve out of her misery.

        I have never anything else where a single character has literally ruined a TV show as much as Shaw did. The showrunners had an uphill battle to sell Shaw and for most they didn’t. Even most fans who liked S3 agree the Shaw was a problem. The hashtag #IBlameShaw is still commonly used on twitter.

        Even BR knows how bad the character was for the show. He even tweeted about it while on Arrow.

        I still think if you had watched week to week (and not binged) your opinion would be different.

    • Chris…what you’re saying makes no sense regarding Shaw getting something out of Chuck as a spy. He sent him on one mission ….sort of alone, but not really ( Sarah “flew” the plane, and he talked to Casey on the phone.) Even Chuck admitted he wouldn’t have succeeded without his team. He had used an alias before. He burned an asset, but it was Casey that showed him how to do it, and how to get over it. Shaw wasn’t around for that.

      His emotions were a liability, but Sarah wasn’t always the answer to that problem either. It wasn’t until he spilled the beans to Morgan that he was able to flash, after finally losing Sarah to Shaw for good. His training in Prague was much more comprehensive than what Shaw ever did for him. Yeah…he sent him on ONE mission ……and then benched him when the Intersect wouldn’t work. He wasn’t making Chuck a spy…he was trying to make the Intersect work. And you didn’t need the misery arc to make that happen.

      • Gary, I never said Shaw cared about Chuck the man. Shaw only wanted on thing the intersect, and yes Shaw benched him after the program failed to work again, but how many time did Casey and Sarah hold Chuck back. At times, I feel like he should of acted like Morgan in Frosted Tips, but thats not Bartowski.

        Chuck was denied in Beefcake with the chip, they thought he was crazy in the tooth, they thought he was crazy when he warned them about Roark’s intersect. He couldn’t tell them about his search for Orion. All these scenes I am talking about have to do with Sarah/Casey and Beckman. Chuck in S3 excelled when Shaw took control of the team. He didn’t care about the man nor should he. Shaw wasn’t sent to Burbank to make friends.

        Shaw pushed Chuck through his first part of his final exam, when Chuck cried about going into a steam room because its disgusting, and it’s why I love Shaw so much because he didn’t coddle him. like I do with my daughter, I don’t coddle her. I make her get up when she falls. It’s what Shaw did for Chuck.

      • so he can defeat the Ring. It was all about revenge for killing Eve

        Shepard I know your smart, it’s the very reason he turned on the CIA once he knew the truth.

        I thought it was very convenient when Beckman said LG took that information with him to the grave, as the character couldn’t defend himself.

        Shaw wasn’t loyal to anyone, and I saw it after The Mask, when he rubbed her shoulders, The devious look he gave while doing it. Unlike Chuck or Bryce for that matter.

        The show was presented that way. Its just people’s hatred for Shaw missed out on how great the character could’ve been.

        They dropped the ball by hooking Sarah and Shaw together I will give you that one. Sarah at this point in the story was in no position to be seeking a relationship, She was mentally shot from all the things that were happening.

        If they just focused more on Shaw and Chuck and that dynamic. I mean come Chuck used a real gun because of Shaw.

        What was the first thing Shaw asked Chuck to do, he asked him to shoot him, but by the time this episode comes Chuck uses a real gun. Shaw has nothing to do with that though. SMH

      • I mean even watching weekly, I would of like Shaw because he brought spunk to the series. Much like Ralphie for Sopranos. Ralphie was killed too soon in my view because there wasn’t anyone that could rival soprano, Who Christopher, Paulie no not good enough.

        Who was going to ever rival Jack Bauer? Tony Almeida or Renee Walker? not in the least….

        Bryce Larkin could of been a nice rival for Chuck to compete with, but White Collar called for Matt Bomer. Characters sometimes needs that one person that can give them grief, but Shaw wasn’t like that man, he could of been so much more. Just like I love Quinn for that very reason. What matter most to Chuck, his friends and family. Shaw killing Orion and taking Sarah from Chuck great now build on that. Quinn wiped her mind away great stuff…

        It shouldn’t be so easy for Chuck, but Fedak made it easy for Chuck to come out a hero. Even Dexter had a rival with his brother appearing once in a while. Its why Emmett Milbarge and Harry Tang are cool for me because they gave a villain for the BM

      • Oddly enough the Shaw role was originally meant for Matt Bomer’s Larkin. But he was suddenly unavailable due to White Collar.

        Many speculate that that not much was changed for BR / Shaw. A fatal decision for the showrunners, the show, the actor and the character.

      • What I find interesting is I always thought Larkin was needed for S3. IT would of been cool to see Shaw and Larkin square off.

        If I wrote the story, I wouldn’t of killed off Larkin instead I would of had Larkin be held captive and have TB go to his rescue with Shaw at the helm.

        Except Larkin would find out Shaw really was a double for the Ring to begin with. It makes the conspiracy arc worth wild. I would of bridged Fulcrum to Volkoff industries with Quinn as the leader of it all.

        TO pay back Larkin and Bartowski

      • It was supposed to be Larkin. Shaw was a last second replacement.

        It was never going to be both.

        The funny thing is if it has been Larkin, Sarah all of a sudden doesn’t seem so “blonde”.

      • In my opinion the “misery arc” was a necessary evil. I, like Chris, have been a binge watcher from the start. I think Gary is right in his observation that the week to week people see the storyline differently than us bingers. I try not to watch tv shows live because of storyline issues. I binge watched Covert Affairs until this season, and the show has almost lost me as a fan this season. I think the time that lapses between episodes makes us get our hopes up for certain things, and when those things don’t happen, we are a little less excited about the show.

        The “misery arc” wasn’t as miserable for this binge watcher. I enjoyed the Shaw character. He added to Chucks character in the following ways:

        Chuck Learns To Be a Spy – Chuck was always using his girlish screams or his nerd IQ to deal with scenarios that came up while on missions with Casey and Sarah. At the end of S2 he gains the intersect 2.0 and then the show ends. At the beginning of S3 it made sense for him to be doing his spy training because after receiving 2.0 he would need it. I don’t feel it would have been believable for him to just slip into an equal role with the team without some sort of CIA training. When he fails his training it feels pretty disappointing, until Shaw comes along and forces Chuck to be something more. Shaw placed him in uncomfortable situations and forced him to deal with it using the intersect instead of him falling back on Casey and Sarah. Even though Casey and Sarah still helped him, he was still way more solo and much more a spy than he had been.

        Chuck Learns to Communicate – After 2 seasons of miscommunications and emotional avoidance, Chuck finally has the courage to say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. Sarah’s character, from the beginning, was too guarded and too job orientated to be able to do and say what needed to be said. To me, Chuck being the one to make the first move was always going to be the case, but Chuck’s Character needed to have more self confidence to have a relationship with Sarah. Shaw’s Character gives Chuck the ability to acknowledge and recognize his own self worth.

        These two reasons may not have required 13 episodes for the week to week watcher, but as a binge watcher, the 13 episodes were not nearly as bad (though I admit, it was stretched out a bit too far).

      • People who binge watch the misery arc cannot truly experience how awful it really is.

        You get to fast forward to next episode and can be done with Shaw in a day or two.

        Watching it week to week was 14 weeks of wanting the story to move on when it didn’t. The 3 week break (for the Olympics) between Mask and Fake Name removed any good will most fans had towards the poorly told, mean story, that took away the characters we loved and replaced them with clueless teenagers.

        You’ve got go understand that for nearly all fans (even those that didn’t mind the arc) Other Guy isn’t seen as a climax more than a “tank god that’s over with episode.

        The showrunners knew they were in a mess after Comic-con. Hell they aired the first 3 episodes over 2 nights to get to the “lighter” stuff quickly. But the quickly organized panic interviews given after Mask left no doubt to many that they had completely misread their audience and laid an egg. All of. Sudden the spoilerphobic showrunners were releasing information about Other Guy and Honeymooners to appease the masses.

        It was an interesting time to be a fan that today’s bingewatchers cannot appreciate.

      • Binge watching the misery arc in a few days was miserable, among other things. It made me want to throw stuff at my tv and say bad words. I can’t even begin to imagine how bad or unbearable it was being spread across 14 weeks. No wonder people bailed.

      • The reason I prefer binge watching over watching weekly is because of advertisement, I don’t like it. I get tired of watching ads for things I can’t afford or are pipe dreams. The last time I watched a show weekly was 24 LAD and that was torture for the sake of waiting a week. SO, after the fourth hour I waited for two or three episodes to tape.

        I am like that with ARcher as well.

      • In Chuck Vs The Podcast, one of the writers lamented the Shaw arc after it was over. In an interview with Yvonne ( when asked about the love rectangle ), she gave the funniest non-response, with a look of disgust on her face. She knew it wasn’t working while they were filming it. It’s pretty obvious she didn’t like what they did to her character.

        I believe giving Chuck the 2.0 was a good move ….I don’t think there’s anyone who disagrees with that …it quickly gave him the skill set to join the spy world. But why Sarah would all of a sudden abandon him when he joined the spy world is the question.( and , Sheena, Prague was the first step of abandoning her 2 year quest to have Chuck join her in the spy world.)

      • The Intersect 2.0 made the writing staff lazy.

        It was 95% used to give Chuck fighting skills (big whoop), when it could have been used in much coolers ways to make Chuck a “unique” spy. After the 2.0 Chuck was really no different than any other spy. He wasn’t special as he once was because the show made him ordinary.

        Chuck was more “special” before the 2.0.

  6. “so he can defeat the Ring. It was all about revenge for killing Eve”

    Disagree. A valid point. But this is revealed SO LATE in the story that it doesn’t matter anymore. If revealed much sooner Shaw becomes a better character. The entirety of the arc hinged on the Eve reveal that TPTB held onto way too long for it to be effective. By then nobody cares about Eve, Shaw, Sarah or Chuck. Casey wasn’t even around anymore.

    “I thought it was very convenient when Beckman …”

    GBecks has the IQ of an amoeba during this arc. A dead giveaway that the story is flawed.

    “They dropped the ball by hooking Sarah and Shaw together I will give you that one.”

    Yes. Which is why the character doesn’t work. Any value he added to the story disappeared when he became attached to Sarah’s hip. He can’t function without Sarah being near him. In fact there a few scenes when he’s not within 2 feet of her. The LI angle rendered both Sarah and Shaw ineffective to the story. It weighed the story down so bad that nothing else was important.

    “What was the first thing Shaw asked Chuck to do, he asked him to shoot him, …”

    Too bad he missed.

    • But Shephard,

      The series Chuck always spaced out their stories. For example, The Orion arc started in Lethal Weapon when Chuck was looking for his father, but they don’t reveal anything until later in the episode about Orion, broken heart Sarah did her part by searching for Stephen not Orion. Was Chuck wrong their for the spacing of the reveal? so why is it good hear and not in S3 because people wanted Chuck and Sarah to be together right away they didn’t want to wait anymore. but as I wrote in other articles S3 was set up at the end of Colonial when Orion took out Intersect 1.0

      • There were plenty of believable obstacles available as to why C&S couldn’t be together. However, after Barstow, LI’s aren’t one of them.

        “S3 was set up at the end of Colonial”.

        Nothing could be further from the truth. At the time, vs the Ring was the shows finale.

        That simply gives the show’s writers, who often ignored the show’s own history, too much credit.

      • Easy on the Jamieson, Chris.

        It’s getting difficult to follow your posts….

        Fans wanted Chuck and Sarah to be in a relationship…even one that was fake. It was the heart of the series. This was supposed go be a fun series to watch. Viewers gave it 8 episodes….and then bailed. Without the comedy, and without the romance, it had nothing. The BuyMore alone could not save it. The fact of the matter is that the show runners couldn’t waste any more time trying to create the issue ( so it made sense in the context of the overall story ), and then couldn’t resolve it either….

        I mean, Chris…what was Season 3 all about in regard to Chuck and Sarah ? Why was it necessary to destroy not only their relationship, but their characters as well ? So Chuck could become a spy ????

      • Do you guys ever listen to what Chris Fedak said, even in the DVD special features.

        Chris wanted the show to be about the journey of a man he even marveled how he enjoyed filming Sandworm because he wanted to make the series focus more on the bromance than romance.

        remember before they got the order for 6 more episodes Other guy was the finale of the season.

        Fedak’s intention and always wanted the story to be about Chuck’s journey. everyone else was secondary despite Sarah being popular with the fans it shows arrogance.

    • They didn’t know (this is a fact) until about a month before Comic-Con that year. About 3 months after the season had ended. The show was slated to air in Mid-February that year but got bumped up to after the Super-Bowl because of a Leno experiment gone wrong. Believe me, I was one of the fans that waited daily for the news.

    • It’s not my words

      It’s Chris’s from the feature, he said, the halloween party scene in Sandworm was his tribute to Melrose Place, but his adaption should of been with Sarah and Chuck, but he wanted it to be about Chuck and morgan’s bromance.

      I shake my head

      • One of the things that Sarah liked about Chuck was his relationship with friends and family. Sandworm was early on in the series and it was important to establish how close Chuck was with Morgan. They were an unlikely pairing for the first few episodes, and it wasn’t until Best Friend that we fully understand the dynamic between the two. I’m glad they established the bromance, and I’m glad they grew Morgan ( he was irritating in Season 1). Making Chuck always have this connection to friends and family ( even Jeff and Lester ), while growing a life with Sarah made the show special. I don’t know why you wanted the show to be all Sarah and Chuck, Chris. For the most part, you never really have much good to say about Chuck ( whiner, cryer, girly, buffoon, etc.) He was not the prototypical James Bond type of spy, and I would almost believe the writers were trying to establish the gap between those gamers who are such hot shots while in the basement on their games, and what would happen if they were faced with the real world situations.

        It’s odd, but what Sarah seemed attracted to was what made Chuck so different from the confident studs she always met in the spy world. He was attentive to Sarah ( note the pizza with no olives and the gardenias he brought her in the hospital), while Bryce, who was with her for much longer, didn’t have a clue. Chuck had negative qualities, to be sure, mostly as a consequence of his lack of self confidence, his being abandoned by both his parents, and Bryce with the coup de grace in getting him kicked out of Stanford. He, unfortunately, didn’t have anyone to teach him to be tough, like Sarah did. However, as we see, being “tough” has its downside, too.

      • You’re spinning and spiraling, Chris. I never said you were wrong…I said you don’t want to see who Sarah really was. I can totally understand it from your viewpoint ….you really don’t like any unflattering light shone on Sarah / Yvonne.

        There is no real right or wrong regarding characters you like or dislike. I can say you were wrong when you write that Chuck went running back to the Buy More after he got the Intersect out of his head ( because, he didn’t ). There’s lots of things you’ve written that were just wrong. But liking or disliking a character is not wrong. Volkoff and Decker were good criminals IMHO, as was Quinn. I’ll disagree about Nicole Ritchie because her acting was deplorable. Then again, she had to always act opposite Yvonne, so the comparison really doesn’t work in her favor. I agree with some of your likes and dislikes, and disagree with others.

        But if you want to be a writer or a commentator outside of this forum, you should consider being as objective as possible. Too much bias will throw things off. You’ve got a great style and a lot of passion … a little objectivity ( a la Unpacking Chuck ) would go a long way.

      • that part about Chuck running back to Buymore was wrong lol I admit that one. i am objective, I just write my opinion on a scene but overall I am objective. but I will try harder to be objective. You will be proud about my next piece

      • Well, then objectivity is in the eye of the beholder, I guess !! It’s pretty obvious when you have your rose coloured glasses on !! LOL

        I asked if people who are upset with Chuck at Prague are upset with Sarah at Ellie’s wedding, since she did the same thing to Chuck that Chuck did to her. You say, you’re not upset WITH CHUCK at Ellie’s wedding !!?? He asked her on a romantic vacation ( which I see nothing wrong with ), but do you think asking her to do ANYTHING would have received a different answer? She had pretty well made up her mind …and was probably going to give Chuck that line whether he proposed some alternative to her or not. By throwing Bryce’s name into the mix , it shows how callous or lacking in tact she can be.
        Then you say you are upset with Sarah in the Red Test…BUT…you qualify it by being more angry with Chuck and Casey for not trusting Sarah (by telling her what happened). First, Chuck phoned her afterwards to tell her what had happened ( so he did trust her to tell her the truth). Secondly, Casey had just witnessed Sarah burn Chuck by accepting a date with him, and then giving him the order to kill the mole. That would have raised red flags for Casey, seeing Sarah turn so far against Chuck as to give him essentially a suicide mission. As well, Sarah adds an emotional anchor around Chuck by dropping the news that, no matter what he does in the Red Test, they won’t be together. She knows the Intersect is wonky when he gets too emotional. Casey knows Chuck can’t pull the trigger, and since he sees that Sarah is unable to see that ( plus her “joined at the hip” to Shaw connection ), why would he ever trust her ?? She backed him in Tic Tac, then promptly scorched Chuck for his actions while on Laudenol. She was way too emotionally erratic to put any trust in at that point in time.

        So Chris, you ARE NOT objective when it comes to any scene which includes Sarah. You are blinded to others actions if it puts Sarah in a bad light ( such as Chuck’s phone call to her).

        I certainly look forward to the next article, though. I think it gets easier to be objective from this point in the series !!

      • Gary, I see Prague very differently from you because of how I interpreted the first two seasons. You say Sarah was continually trying to make Chuck a spy and then abandons this idea in Prague when she asks Chuck to run away with her. In my opinion the first two seasons were all about Chuck and Sarah trying to get the intersect out of his head so they could be together. So when I see Prague, I see a BIG MISTAKE on Chucks part.

        To me, Sarah’s character is serious, smart and tough as nails. She is literal and often doesn’t get jokes, innuendoes or comical movie references. She’s also a professional at what she does and attempts to play by the rules. So when she meets Chuck, his simple, yet charming, personality starts to unravel her world. Chuck changes her in big ways and made her wonder about life outside the agency with him. In my opinion she begins to live this double life. Before Chuck, her spy life was her real life and everything around it was fake. After Chuck, everything around her becomes very real and it is her spy life that she starts to see as being fake. She just needs the two season journey to figure out how to make things work with Chuck. The “Let’s run” in The Ring is her making it work, in my opinion. And up until the “I Know Kung Fu”, Chuck just wanted the intersect out of his head so he could live a normal life with the girl he loves. Prague is a 180 on that in my mind.

        At Ellie’s wedding, I too was disappointed with her decision to follow the agency over Chuck, but it didn’t surprise me. At the beginning of the show when Sarah learns she will be in charge of the intersect project she neither verbally accepts nor rejects the mission, but the look on her face has “I want to be with Chuck, but how do I be a good spy and be with him at the same time?” written all over her face. She is clearly still conflicted at that point. We see that same conflicted look again when she is telling Chuck she is leaving in the morning. As the show progresses I see Sarah resolving that conflict in her head and making the choice to be with Chuck. She shakes her head “no” when Bryce asks her if she is coming with him, she tells Chuck he’s a hero just by being himself (“How many times do you have to be a hero to realize that you are that guy”) and then starts to say “Chuck, I don’t want to save the world, I want… [to be with you]”. To me, this is not a girl who wants Chuck to be a spy.

        There really isn’t anything to be upset about at Ellie’s wedding, because in the end she made the right choice. In Prague, Chuck doesn’t make the right choice. Not until The American Hero when he tells her she was right in Prague.

        All that being said, I LOVE Chuck as much as I love Sarah!

      • If you see Sarah’s conflict as such, then that is a logical conclusion.

        Many of us see the conflict as Sarah wanting a “normal” life, but uncomfortable giving up on the only life she knows. Look at her conversation with Gertrude in season 5….both of them only know how to be spies. Look at her reaction to Chuck wanting to make Carmichael Enterprises a tech company….she is lost because she doesn’t know how she will fit in…all she knows is how to be a spy. ( her words). Her constant back and forth with Chuck in Season 1 and 2 is between moving her relationship with Chuck forward, but resorting to calling it a “cover” when she realizes where it might take her. For a great read on this conflict, I can’t recommend a better read than “Unpacking Chuck” by G. Walter Bush. He details all the conversations in which Sarah tries to get Chuck to consider the life of a spy, including the final ” How many times do you have to be a hero to realize you ARE that guy !” Remember what the conversation was about…. her and Bryce were meant to be out saving the world, with Chuck explaining that he just wasn’t that guy. Sarah wasn’t referring to his normal nerd herding … that would be quite a stretch. Rightly or wrongly, the words Sarah spoke there plays the major role in him downloading the Intersect 2.0 … That is the last statement that plays in his head, and he truly believes he must become a spy to fulfil what Sarah really wants him to be. And remember when Chuck comes in to see Sarah in American Hero, he says, “Wasn’t this the plan…I become a spy so we can be together ?” All the way to Honeymooners, when the conversation with Casey was that Sarah wanted to be a spy, but she wanted Chuck more ( at that point in time ). Like I said if you wish to ignore the statements Sarah makes, then you won’t see that side of it. Living a life on the run just made no sense, because, even if she didn’t want Chuck to be a spy, she was always talking about wanting a “normal life”. Hiding out, different aliases, no real job, always on the run…..doesn’t sound like the “normal” life that Sarah always talked about. I just don’t see the show or the character that way. The dialogue is ironic as well….. she tells Chuck the spy life isn’t real….and then gives him his new papers with his new fake name…Hector Calderone.

      • I see your point on the Sarah subject. I have never watched Chuck thinking that Sarah was pushing and pulling him, but through your words I can see where you would have definitely developed your opinion. I am not necessarily “ignoring” the statements you speak of, but instead focusing on the statements that better fit my idea of who Sarah really is. That is part of the fun of fictional television! As much as I want to read “Unpacking Chuck”, I’m now concerned that it will ruin my Chuck experience by deflating my happy little Chuck and Sarah bubble! lol

      • I never saw it as a push or pull on Chuck…it seemed to me to be a realization that he could be so much more than what he was. When she saw how he thought, and the things he could do if necessary, I think the idea was that she may be able to have her cake and eat it too ( she could have Chuck, and still be a spy). It probably was more about keeping the dynamic she had in S1 & 2, but with Chuck being “official”, which would free her from the asset / handler restrictions. You can tell she was ton when Chuck was almost free of the Intersect how she reacted. Often, she was relieved when Chuck had to remain in the role of her asset. But, of course, that wouldn’t allow her to move the relationship forward ( which was a bit scary in itself for Sarah).

      • I agree with you both,

        It’s why I love Sarah’s approach to getting Chuck motivated than Ellie. Ellie’s method wasn’t intended to be ill willed, but people don’t respond to that kind of attack. Where as Sarah was nice and gave great pep talks. For example, The Tango scene where Ellie was ripping Chuck for lack of moment on his career and in the next apartment we have Sarah concerned for his safety almost being the voice for Chuck. It what makes the conversation between Ellie and Sarah in Tom Sawyer so cool about Sarah’s decision to get him his degree. Sarah heard the attack from Ellie and didn’t like it because at times Sarah was the only one that saw the potential. As did Larking and to a degree Shaw.

      • its the same thing for her, Chuck taught her how to live a normal life, and even admitted to her mother on how it was ok to be surprised.Chuck taught her to use brains before braun at times like in Sizzling Shrimp when Casey wanted to kill them, but Sarah said not too. Big difference between Casey and Sarah, well at least to me. Sarah was and willing to kill people when it was no choice. whereas Casey killed for the hell of it.

      • I think maybe my point of wanting Chuck to join her world may have been taken as a negative, and I don’t think it was. Sarah was torn between joining Chuck’s world ( which would have been ideal if she wasn’t such a great spy), and Chuck joining her world ( which would be ideal if it didn’t change him, or put him in danger). During the first 2 seasons, it seems that Sarah didn’t think that Chuck may change if he became a spy, especially if he was in the mould of a spy role similar to what he was as an asset. The danger part didn’t worry her a lot, because Sarah ( being Sarah ) always felt she could protect Chuck.

        When he downloaded 2.0, though, and Bryce was dead, all of a sudden Chuck could be thrust into the role that Sarah herself had gone through. Since she never liked who she had become, she was fearful that Chuck would also become that person. Prague was the only way out she could see…as stupid an idea as it was.

        I find it interesting, Sheena, that you say Chuck needed to become a better communicator and needed to gain more self confidence in Season 3 in order to win over Sarah, yet you lambaste him for Prague, which would have denied him both the things you say he needed. Do you think it was wise , as well, for Sarah to forego the life she wanted to lead by running in Prague ?

      • This is some really good stuff here. I figured Sheena would have a good prospective on the Prague situation. I have to agree with her the way she assessed to problem.

        Chuck totally screwed the pooch here. Sarah had found an out, she found her normal, she found someone to love and someone she thought loved her, and he crushed her. He was self centered, this is what I want to do, sorry about your bad luck, rip her heart out and stomp it right there on the train platform. Don’t blame her for pitching the phone in the pool when Chuck called. What would Casey say? Moron.

        Now at the same time Gary is spot on. What would running accomplish? Sure they would be together but they would always be on the run. She would now be a rogue agent that had taken the intersect. They would have no life. The CIA, NSA, FBI and the rest of the alphabet soup would hound them forever.

        Defiantly not a well thought out plan. But it was her plan; a plan Chuck had agreed to three weeks earlier. No doubt Sarah had put a lot of effort in pulling this off.

        Regardless, she wanted whatever it took to be with Chuck. She wanted normal. Even with the flawed logic she was going to make it work. I would have liked to seen it work for an episode or two until they had a holy crap moment because of everyone looking for them. That may have been fun. But if they had stepped off that curb how would they get back or make it right?

      • Did anyone ever think Chuck’s response “we will never get our chance” in this episode was the same thing Sarah was thinking in Castle during Pink Slip.. difference was Chuck’s ability to be out spoken. What do you guys think?

      • Yes for sure Chris. I always saw it that way. She was clearly disappointed but still hopeful that they could make a run for it and laid out a pretty clear plan that indicated (to me) that she was dead serious about leaving the spy world for “normal world”. I agree with Gary in that it never would have worked, but I’m with JD in thinking that it would have added to their story to let that scenario play out for a couple episodes. Almost as if “The Honeymooners” should have been placed there instead. That being said, I still enjoy the Shaw arc…just to be different! lol

        I like Gary’s thought process on the “loveable loser” as Chuck. Though I don’t know if she ever alludes to the fact that she isn’t physically attracted to him. I may have glossed over those parts, but if you have examples Gary, I’d love to hear them. It helps me see things in different ways and then reassess my interpretations based on these new facts:)

        In terms of the first 13 episodes having no character resolution, I agree. There was never a “make up” conversation where the two of them confronted the main issue, Prague and Chucks decision to become a spy. I mean she makes a direct statement to him, before Prague, about what would happen if he chose to become a spy: “You’re not going to be the same person” to which Chuck replies “Yeah that’s a good thing”. My interpretation of that is that Chuck thinks he needs to be more than he is to win Sarah. BUT seconds later she outright tells him she wants to be a normal person again, with him. In my mind, that makes Chuck’s decision to say “no” that much more hurtful (to Sarah’s character, not me..hehe). The Writers then carry on with a 13 episode arc that never really addresses that. Like Gary said, it ends up establishing the two things we already knew about Chuck: He loves Sarah and he doesn’t like guns.

        Chuck says “You don’t know what I said no to” as Beckman is firing him. That is one of the moments that makes me think that he

      • Unfortunately, as presented, it was no longer “nerd gets the girl”.

        It was “nerd gets the girl when he becomes a cool spy – and only then.”

        Although I always thought he was, apparently Chuck the “everyman” wasn’t good enough.

      • JD…it certainly isn’t the “normal” Sarah dreamed of. She had wasted an awful lot of blood, sweat and tears in the first 2 seasons just to attain the dreamed of life of a con woman on the run….wasn’t that the past she was trying to NOT have ?? Watch Nemesis at the end…..the way she hesitates when given the choice to go back to her old life with Bryce, or stay and chose a new life with Chuck. That’s always been her dilemma… move forward to a new “normal” life with Chuck, or chose to stay or go back to her old life. That choice constantly tears her apart. Prague was panic. Chuck pooched it absolutely. Not by saying “I can’t”, but by not saying “The Three Words” at that point. He was as torn up about his decision as Sarah was by hers at Ellie’s wedding. The decisions were tough for both of them.

        But that’s my real beef….the plan wasn’t Sarah…she was much more tactical and deliberate than that. And the “I can’t” wasn’t Chuck ….the guy had verbal diarrhea…he never would have walked away. Prague was like watching Zac and Yvonne play 2 totally different characters.

      • JD said,

        “Chuck totally screwed the pooch here. Sarah had found an out, she found her normal, she found someone to love and someone she thought loved her, and he crushed her.”

        Which now makes Chuck just like every other man Sarah has ever known who has abandoned her. That ‘s special. And nothing in the first 13 addresses this in any way.

        It is completely OOC for Chuck. But then S3 Chuck was a brand new character anyways.

        Prague requires the fans to contort the Chuck character too much in order to “sell” their story. And it doesn’t work, because you can actually “see” the writers pull the puppet strings. It’s inorganic and false.

        Prague is where S3 fell apart. Yep, 15 minutes into the new season it no longer made any sense.

      • Unlike you, Shep, I “saw” Chuck on Netflix. But oddly enough, I also watched many of the episodes when they aired on TV. I saw enough to get the general gist of the story and appreciate the dynamic between Chuck and Sarah. I don’t know how many episodes I watched in the first 2 years…probably more than I remember ( brain trouble ….).

        What I do remember was seeing Bryce Larkin dead in the Intersect room and Chuck uploading 2.0 into his brain and Kung Fu. It was a long time after that when Season 3 came on the air…and I remember watching Episode 1. After about 15 – 20 minutes, I either switched the channel or left…and I never watched another Chuck episode again until it came on Netflix. By then, I wanted to see the pilot and fill in the blanks. To this day, S3 E1 feels like a totally different show. I’m still tempted to turn it off or leave !!

      • Also…one of the things that made Chuck a special guy is that he was a bit of a lovable loser….a big goofball with a heart of gold. It helped drive the show because there was no other reason for someone like Sarah to love him. She was never really “attracted” to him physically…. there are many lines in the series that allude to this fact. By taking the main protagonist and making him a dirtbag ( i.e., an unlovable loser ), then you’ve ripped the heart out of the show. There is absolutely no reason for Sarah to love him ( which it seems is where she went )…. and then no resolution in his character over the 13 episodes to once again make him that lovable loser or show he has a heart of gold. All it ever seems to establish is that he doesn’t like to use guns, and he loves Sarah. That really doesn’t make him much different than Shaw or Bryce.

      • Chris…I can’t figure how to insert these replies in the right order….they just end up at the bottom of a thread.

        Can you elucidate on your thoughts on “We’ll never get our chance” ???

      • Well, Gary

        What do we know about Chuck and Sarah, Chuck has charisma and Sarah is reserve. With that being the case, Sarah’s action was one like Chuck in other guy in a sense. “We are never going to get our chance to be together.” I think back to what he said in Break up. “i don’t want to find out I can’t call you because you are off stopping a revolution.” So, it looked like Chuck’s fears were coming true. Same thing for Sarah in Castle the night Chuck download 2.0 maybe she felt her chance to live in Chuck’s word was over now that he had 2.0. The agency wasn’t going to let him walk, right Sarah felt the same as Chuck in other guy except she didn’t talk about it because she isn’t that type of character to talk about her feelings. She admits it in the tooth, “it shouldn’t of taken me this long to say it, but i never felt this way. All she could think about was the next mission. now all she could think about was a future with him.

        In Castle Chuck and Sarah both essentially said I will never get my chance by very different means

      • “…. and then no resolution in his character over the 13 episodes to once again make him that lovable loser or show he has a heart of gold. ”

        Which is why, other than a few nice scenes, Other Guy is a meaningless episode. It is used to reset the story in reverse to what Pink Slip did, not resolve anything that got us there.

        People love Other Guy because C&S finally got together. But really C&S got together because the writers wanted to (just like the writers wanted them apart in Pink Slip) not because it made sense in the story, because it doesn’t. Nothing is earned, it’s just given – and that cheapens the relationship.

        Other Guy is one of the few Chuck episodes that gets worse the more you watch it because it truly is lightweight (if even that) resolution to some heavyweight issues. People give it too easy of a pass because it ends the misery arc.

      • Shepherd,

        I understand your grip about Chuck, people like you who watched weekly were tormented for weeks. When i watched Dawson’s Creek. i was angry with how Pacey ended up with Joey.

        But did i stop watching because I didn’t get my way or liked the way the writing ended up. No, I stuck it out because I was a fan of the show. It almost seems like fans of a team. Love them when they are winning and bolt when they are laughing stocks.

        Those people are not real fans if they did. They attempted to change the direction of the show. How long do you really think the show would last with the same concept every year. 24 suffered because it was the same story line over and over. gets tiring after a while.

        Chuck and Sarah were the foundation of the show, I don’t care what anyone says. The spy story took a back seat at times because of the Zac and Yvonne. I separate the BM story from the Main story because of that.

        If Lester and Jeff were so great how come they haven’t gotten a spin off like Joey did from friends or Robert from everyone loves Raymond. Chuck and Sarah was Chuck. I add Adam Baldwin in most cases because of his one liners and grunts. Episodes like Couch lock was great

        Sorry man, but S3 wasn’t a bad story

      • Shep said:

        “Other Guy is one of the few Chuck episodes that gets worse the more you watch it because it truly is lightweight (if even that) resolution to some heavyweight issues. People give it too easy of a pass because it ends the misery arc.”

        I agree totally on this one. I actually don’t watch that one as much as I watch American Hero. Though American Hero didn’t resolve anything heavy, I felt it had more feeling in it. For instance, when Chuck locks Sarah in castle so he could save Shaw. Sarah asks why he’s doing this and Chuck tells her it’s because he knows how much she cares about him. To me that shows Sarah that 1. Chuck loves her (he would rather risk his own life to save the man he thinks Sarah has chosen just so that Sarah will have a chance at being happy. 2. Chuck is still the same person he was before Prague (aside from the obvious 2.0 in his head) and 3. He’s become a true spy

        His speech to Sarah in castle, near the end of The American Hero episode had more weight in it than his “poor me” speech in Other Guy.

      • Also, the drastic shift in the story line at the beginning of S3, in my opinion, is the writers trying to change it up a bit and keep the “will they won’t they” going. For a lot of people, that shift was too drastic. I felt ok with it, even though it was heart breaking, because I knew what the writers were trying to do.

        Like Chris just said:

        “Those people are not real fans if they did. They attempted to change the direction of the show. How long do you really think the show would last with the same concept every year. 24 suffered because it was the same story line over and over. gets tiring after a while.”

      • Nobody on this site bailed during or after the misery arc. Shame on you, Chris, for even suggesting that to Shep…he and the TRUE fans of the show are the reason there are 5 seasons for you to watch on Netflix. Season 3 was a cluster#*¢&, especially when we see it in retrospect. It didn’t move the story or the romance forward. After 13 episodes, we ended up at the same place as The Ring. It destroyed the “reputation” of the 2 main protagonists. The fans who had to endure it so you could see it on Netflix…they knew it. The writers knew it. The actors knew it.

        It was bad.

      • I am talking about the people that quit the show all together. Shep stook around great, and most fans did great I am happy for that, but those that quit the show and never return were not real fans.

        Did I watch the show during it’s airing, no I didn’t, but watching it on netflix doesn’t make me less of a fan because I didn’t get to feel the angst of waiting each week. Shep has said that. The weekly bit I don’t understand because the episodes doesn’t change binge watching does it?

      • Sheena,

        “Though I don’t know if she ever alludes to the fact that she isn’t physically attracted to him. I may have glossed over those parts, but if you have examples Gary, I’d love to hear them.”

        I can’t really remember the episodes they’re from. In Coup d’Etat, Chuck and Sarah are discussing the “200 Questions before Yes” book, and Chuck asks Sarah to “describe your partner”. Sarah lists off mostly internal qualities with the only physical qualities being, “tall , dark hair …” Chuck says, “What not handsome or dashing or ….”

        The second instance is, I believe in Leftovers ( but maybe even in Phase Three ) when she tells him the most important thing is to have him home. He makes a crack about himself , and Sarah says , ” That’s what I love about you.” Chuck replies something to the effect about, “What, not the dashing good looks etc etc…” to which Sarah kisses him and says, ” and you’re funny, too.”

        Add in the line about Shaw… ” Well, I do have my type…” and her attraction to guys like Cole, Bryce and Shaw, and I think the intention is to draw that comparison. I think the writers want people to look at more than just physical qualities …. I like that about the show. Don’t get me wrong…Chuck is not a mutt. But when Sarah loses her memories, she’s not swept off her feet by the sight of Chuck !! It seems to take his actions on display for Sarah to begin to notice him.

      • your right, Gary

        I don’t think Sarah was attracted to Chuck physically. Remember she was into him after watching him with the Ballerina. Throw in the Baggage Handler line and Sarah was hooked.

        Remember What Morgan said in AH, “We have to do everything verbally, We don’t have the looks.”

      • I think in the break up, Chuck also said there will always be someone better looking or more athletic, so we have to use our brains when it comes to competition

      • Everyone knew what the writers were trying to do (you could practically see them on screen telling the actors). The problem is what the writers were trying to do required new characters that we’d never met.

        After the fans rallied to essentially save the show for S3, the showrunners used up all the goodwill they had with the fans with the S3 storyline. So much so that fan reaction and expectations were almost silent after the frenzy that existed before S3. The tweet by Schwartz commenting that the fans should rally in order to get a S4 was met with laughter and cynicism.

      • Shepherd,

        Most shows try to introduce new characters every season. Some work and others don’t. For example, Jimmy Smith was on the final two seasons of Sons of Anarchy, He worked out, but some characters should of been scrapped. Chuck did that with the original cast. Apparently, the original pilot called for Chuck to have a love interest right off that bat in the club. The design was to make the woman in the club jealous of Chuck with Sarah. However, they scrapped that idea. S3 was needed in a sense because Chuck needed to become a real spy. Being an Asset under the wings of two agents was getting old.

        Zachary said it himself, he wanted to be apart of the action not hiding in the van. How were they going to sell to the fans ok Chuck knows Kung Fu with out training. How could they do that with 8 months off. It wouldn’t of worked. I don’t think it was to be like every other agent because he wasn’t he had an intersect to assist him, remember he was fired because he didn’t work. Shaw sat him because he didn’t work. so he didn’t get treated like every other spy. Its why I love S4 Chuck the most. He didn’t need handlers anymore, he was comfortable in his skin. Right off the bat, in Anniversary he is in Russian on his own trying to crack computer systems. Great stuff…..My favorite Chuck. I respected him when he wanted to go to Switzerland by himself to prove his worth.

        Because of his decision to do that made Sarah know how much she loved Chuck. “I don’t like who I am when I am not with Chuck” It’s powerful and why Phase Three is my favorite episode of the series. For five days Sarah’s worse fears of Chuck out of her life was good for Sarah. Like I said and will always say Shaw was good for Chuck. Characters are the issue they are lifeless without direction I get it, but I will always favor Shaw just like you hate him

      • Fans would have easily bought Chuck doing Kung Fu without any spy training.

        What fans didn’t buy was Chuck giving Sarah the cold shoulder for no good reason or even better for selfish reasons. Every fan knew that the speech at the end of 3.02 belonged on the train platform and the writers couldn’t have it there. Hence making the story more important than the characters and making it appear false.

        You cannot begin to appreciate how fan’s expectations for S3 were shattered by Pink Slip. No matter what you may think of the story today, fans at the time were perceived to be treated as essentially unimportant by showrunners who were saying that the story was great and that the fans didn’t get it.

        The showrunners believed that the fans would accept whatever they put on the screen and then were baffled by the overwhelming negative reaction.

        So, no matter how many times you may say it’s a good story, I will say no because the fans expected much better than just “good”.

      • What Netflix watchers don’t get is how much bigger S3 is than just the story told on the screen.

        And when what was shown on the screen didn’t live up to the hype (rightly or wrongly) the fallout and disappointment was just as big.

        If the show would have ended with Other Guy, many would have been OK because there was no reason for the show to continue after what it became in S3. The back 6 of S3 essentially were a save.

        S4 is better than S3 but only a little bit. S4 suffers from many of the same storytelling issues that plagued S3. Plus it is quite evident that the showrunners didn’t want to antagonize the few fans they had left. The season is all lightweight and directionless. Mama B was a horrendous character and Volkoff was a great villain until he showed up.

      • I can certainly understand the frustration of the TV viewer. People stood by the show for 2 years because they loved it (and the characters) so much. They were asked to get involved saving it …there was letter writing, social media involvement, supporting Subway…viewers had lots of skin in the game. They wanted THEIR show saved and they put their heart and soul into the effort. When they were victorious, the show runners turned around and gave them a different show with different characters. I can’t imagine how anybody would be OK with that.

    • I mean Shepherd,

      Think back to the episode in S4 when Morgan was moving out, Chuck was devastated crying in a corner of the bed room. yet he was able to let his wife walk?

      something wrong there

      • The show died for me when Sarah put on the glasses. I thought it was done

        then they do the dastardly thing and have Sarah try to kill Chuck. As I said i rather watch S3 then Sarah killing Chuck.

        The series should of ended with the wedding.

      • The show definitely took a nose dive after Sarah put the glasses on, BUT after binge watching the entire series 4x now (plus individual shows multiple times), I have become OK with the ending. It brings back all that heart ache and frustration we felt in S1 and S2 and crams it into 2 shows. It is still hard to watch, but I am now moved and comforted by the final beach scene. I know I pretty much stand alone on this one, but I’m ok with my solidarity.

      • Nothing wrong with being left hanging or in suspense. That’s what makes for a good movie or television show. That curiosity is what keeps us coming back.

        While the ending of Other Guy would have been a very good season or series stopping point, it still would have left fans unsatisfied if it was a series finale. A finale at this point would have given us a 40 some episode series, about half of what we ended up with.

        The Other Guy ending is more palatable than The Good Bye. With Other Guy there wasn’t anything left hanging, for the most part. There were some minor unanswered questions. These were questions that most of us arm chair quarterbacks may have wondered about or even knocked around but at least there was closure with Other Guy. Chuck and Sarah had found each other. They appeared happy. What more could a fan ask for?

        And there in lies the problem. Fans did want more. It wasn’t enough that Chuck and Sarah had finally found each other. In that process a lot of damage had been done; screwed up story lines, goofy arcs, and character assassination. Everyone wanted that damage fixed.

        As Chris has alluded to many times, this may well have rubbed Chris Fedak the wrong way and he became hell bent on finishing what he started or finishing the story he envisioned regardless of the results.

        While there is nothing wrong with Fedak being able to express himself or present his art form any way he desires, it is sad and unfortunate he did it the way he did. I’d compare this to a manufacturer cranking out products that consumers can’ t use or don’t want. Your business is destine to fail if this is your business model; thus Chuck ending at 91 episodes.

        No doubt in my mind Chuck could have made 100 episodes or more. I’ve seen worse shows last longer. Other such shows have been syndicated and I periodically find these shows scattered around still being shown. Good Bye would have been an excellent season ender. It would have kept us in several months of suspense as we waited for a proper final season; or even a TV movie that closely followed the January 2012 ending.

        As I have noted in other posts, if Dallas had of ended on the “Who shot JR” episode, the real world would have imploded. Fans wanted and expected answers. The fans got that. Dallas also made a reprieve with some new cast members. I believe the Dallas restart may have continued if not for the passing of Larry Hagman.

        While I can accept Good Buy as the ending, it took several rewatches for this to sit well. I hope that somewhere, somehow, and someway the right combination comes up so the fans get what we would like. It would be nice to discuss how great the movie was. They could leave everyone whole and functional; with the house with a red door, white picket fence, and all.

        At the end of a movie we could then watch something like an unscrupulous person delivering a package to that house leaving us wondering indefinitely about that package; and that would be ok as the issue would be met head on by the team we came to know and love.

      • “then they do the dastardly thing and have Sarah try to kill Chuck. As I said i rather watch S3 then Sarah killing Chuck.”

        The thing is, Chris, that is Sarah …. that is who she was. She killed who she was ordered to kill. She completed a mission in whatever rogue, wild card way she knew how. She didn’t question authority, and innocents be damned if they got in the way of the mission. That’s why she could hold a gun on Ellie ( kill her if necessary ), and kill Chuck.

        It makes you think back to The Helicopter when Casey said she poisoned a room full of French diplomats, and Sarah said they were assassins. Given the way Sarah was ( as evidenced by reverting back to her former self ), they could very well have been diplomats who were in the way of her completing her mission. She would have been easily persuaded to take them out by her handlers ….just tell her they were assassins.

        And Chris…get a grip on your commentary. Chuck wasn’t crying in the room…he was melancholy to be sure. And he wasn’t “letting” Sarah walk. You have this tendency to take one particular scene and totally take it out of context from the whole storyline.( as you did with the scene where he falls out of the vault saying, ” Sarah, I love you..”) Reread “Unpacking Chuck” and pay particular note to how Bush weaves the scenes together to create a common thread. You have a lot of talent for writing, but your approach is too scattershot. You fall into the realm of political commentary where they always take one line out of context to SPIN a narrative.

      • Hey Sheena…I’m OK with the ending as well. Listening to the dialogue, and watching “the kiss” lets you know where Sarah is at. They don’t just kiss and pull away, but they go back in for another kiss…and it lingers. It leaves enough mystery regarding the memories ( and I always state that Sarah would be luckier than the rest of us if she got to completely wipe out Season 3 from her memory banks !!), and ensures us that they will be together. Are there causes for doubt ? Sure…but I think that’s a personality thing / glass half full/half empty outlook.

        For the most part, I’m with you. I just hope there’s a movie at some point that can capitalize on that ending.

      • agreed,

        If Misery arc was not need so was the final four episodes. After watching Sarah being taken away in Bullet train, and her looking at her team I stop watching S5 and return to S1 can’t watch 5/12 or Goodbye, but i can watch Fake Name and Mask all the time

      • Chris said ” After watching Sarah being taken away in Bullet train, and her looking at her team I stop watching S5 ”

        There’s where your rose colored glasses come in to play …. you don’t want to see who Sarah really was before her transformation … all that perfection you allude to gets pretty well blown up when seeing what she was capable of. It’s one thing to be Graham’s wild card assassin when she’s rescuing Chuck, but it’s another thing to see her doing it the way she really used to do it…and with no noble intention. It really is disturbing….

        But, in essence, Chuck Vs Sarah is probably the most dramatic, well acted episode of the whole series. The subject matter kicks you in the gut pretty hard. But if you want TV drama and acting at its best, you can’t do much better than that episode.

      • Gary,

        Like Chuck, I don’t need to see or know about her past. The Sarah we were treated in the first four seasons was nothing like the Sarah we saw in 5/12. Thus, I can’t sit here and say I feel comfortable watching it. Yes, the acting was superb, but still I don’t want to watch Sarah trying to kill Chuck because it’s not the Sarah from Phase Three or The Truth or Tom Sawyer, She wasn’t even the Sarah in Baby, when she turned the corner.

      • I’ve got to agree with Gary on this one. I still have a hard time watching Chuck vs Sarah and Good Bye. I made myself watch and I’m glad I did. Sure I still get a little misty eyed or find a lump in my throat even knowing what will happen and how it will end.

        I pick up on things each time I watch. You get to see how Sarah was and how Chuck made her a better person. I adamantly disagree with the ending we were left with. Like it or not I still watch.

        Why none of the cast, especially Yvonne, never got any award or recognition for the last two episodes is beyond me. Superb acting by all. If you want to see serious Yvonne expressions they are here. If Goodbye had not left us hanging as severely as it did I would easily, hands down, no questions asked, say it was my number one episode and Phase 3 would be my number two.

        Watching the last two episodes helps make sense of things that came before. You can’t use the line you don’t need to know who Sarah was because you know who she is. That line worked for Chuck because he was working on a relationship with her. Eventually for the relationship to continue he would have to gain some insight into her past.

        For the rest of us, in order to appreciate who Sarah is, who she became, who she will hopefully return to, and how she has the capability of being a good person due to Chuck and her interactions with Chuck and Chuck’s family and friends, we need to see her past. Our glimpse at her past came courtesy of Quinn messing her mind up. I’m sure through the series we all had a good idea but Quinn helped solidify the idea into harsh reality.

        I have a better appreciation of how Chuck transformed her; even after she turned on him and he still couldn’t hurt her. That’s what helps me believe her spending time with him after the beach scene will eventually make her fall for him all over again. Please do not misconstrue this as I liked or even remotely approve of the ending. Not true, the ending still sucks.

      • Jd,

        That is fine, and I respect people liking their own episodes and if they agree with the populace thats great too.

        As I wrote before I never been a fan of a JOhn Cena or The Rock I been a fan of Mr. Perfect or Million Dollar Man My family are New York Jets fans, I am the only Green Bay Packer fan in the family.

        The reason i don’t like Chuck vs Sarah is because for four years we watched a couple grow together, go through every phase a relationship had to undertake, and yet the couple stay together.

        for four years we watch a man and woman from two very different worlds want each other more than what they had.

        I can’t watch her threaten to kill a sister she never had. The journey is unfulfilled for me. Sarah said she was past that stage in her life in S4.

        It’s what I want to remember Sarah for not her in a house telling Chuck she must of been doing her job really well.

        If it wasn’t for Quinn I wouldn’t watch the five four episode at all. At least I make it to BT close enough to the fire is good enough for me

      • Truth be told Chris, the Sarah from Season 4 wasn’t the Sarah that walked into the Buy More in the pilot either. She had changed plenty in her 5 years….it seemed the positive change started in the Baby. ( after assassinating the mobsters….)

      • Oh yea i agree the crow like killing of all those people was awesome, but At that point we saw the Sarah we had most of the time.

        plus we also saw a glimpse in CAT squad. The flash back in the pilot also gave me enough to see what she is capable much like in my personal preference Phase Three was a lot more valuable as an episode than Cliffhanger because of the very acting you said in 5/12

        Gary, I am not a conventional viewer I have my own likes and dislikes for example i hate Broken Heart you like it.

        I rank 3d last on my list of episodes because it offered nothing to the main story.

        I have said i love impactful characters, i don’t like characters like Mary Bartowski because they were not cast righted. Linda Hamilton died after T2

        I love Volkoff and Decker am I wrong for liking these kind of characters

        I love Verbanski and Ilsa for Casey am I wrong for that too

        Mei Ling would of been cool for more episodes Hey, I am also the one that believe Heather Chandler was a great rival for Sarah. Carina should of been used more but I am wrong there too because I go against the grain.

        What happen to people having their own opinions. Ellie was annoying most of the time for me but others saw the goodness in her.

        Ellie to me was everything that was wrong about Chuck and Sarah was everything right for Chuck.

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